So this week the second publication I have contributed to has been published. TPK games has released the next installment in their line of “Feats of Legends” books: 20 Undead Feats. The TPK staff were a joy to work with and I got to contribute with my friend Neal Litherland, who of course runs the Improved Initiative blog. You should take a look at it, if you haven’t already.
With the undead being the theme of the new book, I thought we could talk undead and specifically undead that are not evil. Can there be non-evil undead you ask yourself? And the answer is that intelligent undead fall into the same category of most other creatures in the bestiary, they can actually be of any alignment you choose as a GM.
Page five of bestiary one clearly states:
“While a monster's size and type remain constant (unless changed by the application of templates or other unusual modifiers), alignment is far more fluid. The alignments listed for each monster represent the norm for those monsters—they can vary as you require them to in order to serve the needs of your campaign. Only in special cases is this more fixed, such as creatures with an Intelligence of 2 or lower (which are almost always neutral) and planar monsters (outsiders with alignments other than those listed are unusual and typically outcasts from their kind).”
Since intelligent undead have an INT score higher than 2 and they are not planar creatures from an alignment based plane (thus giving them an alignment subtype), they can officially be of any alignment. But there is further evidence that they aren’t forced to be evil. Although channeling negative energy can be done mostly by evil-aligned, or naughty-leaning neutral-aligned characters, negative energy itself is not evil. The negative energy plane is not an aligned plane and negative energy is neither good nor evil.
“While a monster's size and type remain constant (unless changed by the application of templates or other unusual modifiers), alignment is far more fluid. The alignments listed for each monster represent the norm for those monsters—they can vary as you require them to in order to serve the needs of your campaign. Only in special cases is this more fixed, such as creatures with an Intelligence of 2 or lower (which are almost always neutral) and planar monsters (outsiders with alignments other than those listed are unusual and typically outcasts from their kind).”
Since intelligent undead have an INT score higher than 2 and they are not planar creatures from an alignment based plane (thus giving them an alignment subtype), they can officially be of any alignment. But there is further evidence that they aren’t forced to be evil. Although channeling negative energy can be done mostly by evil-aligned, or naughty-leaning neutral-aligned characters, negative energy itself is not evil. The negative energy plane is not an aligned plane and negative energy is neither good nor evil.
Lastly there is precedence. I can think of one Paizo’s modules where there is an undead alchemical zombie (yes zombies aren’t usually intelligent but she is) who is neutral off the top of my head, and I am sure there are others. So, even beyond some boxes of text in a bestiary that you could argue intent with, Paizo has explicitly shown us through their content that yes, undead can be non-evil.
I believe we’ve thoroughly established that we can do it, but just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should. So why should we add non-evil aligned undead? And maybe a better question how do these undead become non-evil even when 99% of their kind are evil? Both very valid questions.
The answer to why is pretty simple to me, to switch things up. Players have seen the flesh eating Ghoul, what about the Ghoul scholar? Tired of seeing the faux Dracula blood sucking vampire, why not the vampire who worries about the welfare of his people? The juxtaposition of overwhelmingly evil beings not being evil throws everything in the face of convention. Add in the fact you could have a Lawful Good lich that still detects as evil because he’s undead, and watch as the Paladin tries to smite him to no effect causing him to believe he is losing his powers.
I believe we’ve thoroughly established that we can do it, but just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should. So why should we add non-evil aligned undead? And maybe a better question how do these undead become non-evil even when 99% of their kind are evil? Both very valid questions.
The answer to why is pretty simple to me, to switch things up. Players have seen the flesh eating Ghoul, what about the Ghoul scholar? Tired of seeing the faux Dracula blood sucking vampire, why not the vampire who worries about the welfare of his people? The juxtaposition of overwhelmingly evil beings not being evil throws everything in the face of convention. Add in the fact you could have a Lawful Good lich that still detects as evil because he’s undead, and watch as the Paladin tries to smite him to no effect causing him to believe he is losing his powers.
How is a bit tougher I think, but there are still many answers to the question. A vampire or even a mummy may have sought undeath as a means to protect their people forever. Other randomly created undead like ghouls might somehow maintain many of their past memories and desperately cling to their humanity. Ghosts are probably the easiest, just give them a piece of unsettled business that extends beyond killing some bloodline that wronged them.
So there you have it, the case for non-evil undead. Would you use a non-evil undead in your game? Would you go so far as to let an undead creature be actually good? Tell us your stories of undead gone not-bad.
So there you have it, the case for non-evil undead. Would you use a non-evil undead in your game? Would you go so far as to let an undead creature be actually good? Tell us your stories of undead gone not-bad.
Sure, I don't see why I wouldn't let an undead be good/neutral. There's nothing really preventing it other than player/GM misconceptions and generalizations.
ReplyDeleteI have a lich ready and waiting in my campaign that only wanted to live with her companions forever. Turned herself and her friends immortal through undeath. There's nothing evil about her and I honestly cannot wait to present the connundrum to my party.
ReplyDeleteI think for me there is an odd dichotomy. I think the actual creation of undead is inherently an evil act. Doing so, even if it is for the greater good, drags you toward being evil. Although technically in pathfinder there isn't a rule that says evil descriptor spells are evil acts. James Jacobs and many of the other guys at Paizo have said they all think it is, they just haven't codified it leaving leeway for GMs. However on Golarion creating undead is evil.
ReplyDeleteThat said being undead doesn't mean being evil. So sure maybe a necromancers raises you but that doesn't make you inherently evil as an undead. Although many who become undead can't fight off their new forms baser urges, and most spontaneously created undead are form because they were evil in life.
I had a player come to me with the concept of a necromancer who worked exclusively with the souls of the dead who -for various reasons- were unable to move on or were otherwise willing to trade a favor for helping them move on.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a cool concept so I worked out a way to keep both lore and concept. The essence of it was that he was creating free-willed intelligent undead who would serve him until the group finished a particular task/quest and the Necromancer had helped them do whatever thing helped the spirit move on.
So hes not creating undead hes just commanding ones that already exist. This is interesting. The cimmand and control undead spells are not evil aligned so this concept could work quite well
DeleteQuite late, but in Curse of the Crimson Throne there is a ghost NPC who's Chaotic Neutral.
ReplyDeleteI think ghosts are one of the few pathfinder undead that don't universally start as evil. In the ghost template it says as much.
Deletejaleeme aw
ReplyDeleteİsmetpaşa
ReplyDeleteKnidos
Sanayi
İhsaniye
Bostanlı
GGQ0
whatsapp görüntülü show
ReplyDeleteücretli.show
WHLH
ankara parça eşya taşıma
ReplyDeletetakipçi satın al
antalya rent a car
antalya rent a car
ankara parça eşya taşıma
K48
muş evden eve nakliyat
ReplyDeleteçanakkale evden eve nakliyat
uşak evden eve nakliyat
ardahan evden eve nakliyat
eskişehir evden eve nakliyat
TMGRY
urfa evden eve nakliyat
ReplyDeletemalatya evden eve nakliyat
burdur evden eve nakliyat
kırıkkale evden eve nakliyat
kars evden eve nakliyat
P4GH
2713D
ReplyDeleteYalova Evden Eve Nakliyat
Tunceli Evden Eve Nakliyat
Ardahan Şehir İçi Nakliyat
Bartın Şehir İçi Nakliyat
Kütahya Şehir İçi Nakliyat
Bartın Parça Eşya Taşıma
Aksaray Şehirler Arası Nakliyat
Bursa Parça Eşya Taşıma
Sakarya Parça Eşya Taşıma
542FA
ReplyDeleteÇerkezköy Marangoz
Bitcoin Nasıl Alınır
Maraş Lojistik
Trabzon Evden Eve Nakliyat
Çerkezköy Çamaşır Makinesi Tamircisi
Bilecik Şehirler Arası Nakliyat
Hakkari Lojistik
Tokat Lojistik
Rize Parça Eşya Taşıma
D2F52
ReplyDeleteSilivri Cam Balkon
Trabzon Lojistik
Ünye Fayans Ustası
Btcturk Güvenilir mi
Uşak Parça Eşya Taşıma
Kalıcı Makyaj
Bartın Şehirler Arası Nakliyat
Tekirdağ Boya Ustası
Çerkezköy Oto Lastik
541D4
ReplyDeleteAntalya Evden Eve Nakliyat
Maraş Evden Eve Nakliyat
Nevşehir Lojistik
Tekirdağ Şehirler Arası Nakliyat
Çorum Şehir İçi Nakliyat
Ardahan Evden Eve Nakliyat
Kırklareli Şehirler Arası Nakliyat
Ordu Evden Eve Nakliyat
Aydın Şehirler Arası Nakliyat
F5D16
ReplyDeleteBayburt Lojistik
Iğdır Parça Eşya Taşıma
Iğdır Şehir İçi Nakliyat
Coinex Güvenilir mi
Çerkezköy Kurtarıcı
Casper Coin Hangi Borsada
Altındağ Fayans Ustası
Isparta Evden Eve Nakliyat
Area Coin Hangi Borsada
57AE2
ReplyDeleteBayburt Evden Eve Nakliyat
Iğdır Evden Eve Nakliyat
Batıkent Boya Ustası
Keçiören Fayans Ustası
Karapürçek Boya Ustası
Düzce Evden Eve Nakliyat
Çerkezköy Ekspertiz
Maraş Evden Eve Nakliyat
Tekirdağ Parke Ustası
04B3C
ReplyDeleteBitcoin Yatırımı Nasıl Yapılır
Binance Madencilik Nasıl Yapılır
Bitcoin Kazanma Siteleri
Coin Çıkarma Siteleri
resimlimag.net
Binance Borsası Güvenilir mi
Kripto Para Nasıl Çıkarılır
Yeni Çıkan Coin Nasıl Alınır
Coin Nasıl Kazılır
D72BC
ReplyDeleteOsmaniye Yabancı Görüntülü Sohbet
eskişehir telefonda kızlarla sohbet
malatya sohbet sitesi
hatay rastgele sohbet odaları
yalova canlı görüntülü sohbet
artvin sesli sohbet siteleri
Diyarbakır Görüntülü Sohbet Kadınlarla
kırıkkale sohbet muhabbet
Eskişehir Canlı Sohbet Bedava
42092
ReplyDeleteLinkedin Takipçi Hilesi
Chat Gpt Coin Hangi Borsada
Bitcoin Kazanma Siteleri
Bitcoin Nasıl Oynanır
Azero Coin Hangi Borsada
Bitcoin Nasıl Alınır
Paribu Borsası Güvenilir mi
Luffy Coin Hangi Borsada
Mith Coin Hangi Borsada
71973
ReplyDeleteBinance Ne Zaman Kuruldu
Dlive Takipçi Hilesi
Görüntülü Sohbet
Coin Nasıl Oynanır
Kripto Para Çıkarma Siteleri
Bitcoin Yatırımı Nasıl Yapılır
Arbitrum Coin Hangi Borsada
Bitcoin Nedir
Soundcloud Takipçi Hilesi
CD74B
ReplyDeleteRaca Coin Hangi Borsada
Bitcoin Nasıl Oynanır
Threads Beğeni Satın Al
Lunc Coin Hangi Borsada
Snapchat Takipçi Satın Al
Bitcoin Nasıl Alınır
Kripto Para Kazma
Binance Referans Kodu
Periscope Beğeni Hilesi
ygtghfhgjhgjgj
ReplyDeleteشركة عزل اسطح بالقطيف